Everyone's Using the SAME Data

In the latest episode of B2B Outbound, Chris and James sat down with Ben Robinson, founder of Playbook Systems, to discuss why traditional B2B data is becoming a commodity—and what smart sales teams are doing about it.

It's not about getting more data. It's about getting data nobody else has.

The Problem with Generic Data

Your sales team is probably using the same data as everyone else. ZoomInfo, Apollo, LinkedIn Sales Navigator. Ring any bells?

Ben cuts straight to the chase: "Everyone makes use of intent signals from these big data providers. But the problem is everyone's sharing the same intent data. So every time there's a new job mover, everyone is aware of the same job mover at the same time, and they get flooded with messages."

Translation: Your prospects are drowning in identical outreach because every sales team is working from the same playbook.

What Is "Unique-to-You" Data?

Ben's company specializes in what he calls "unique-to-you data"—information that's specific to your business and completely unavailable to your competitors.

Here's a killer example: Ben worked with an interactive content platform whose biggest enemy was PDF documents. So what did they do?

They scraped and analyzed their target accounts' PDF usage patterns:

• How many PDFs are they publishing?
• What tools are they using to create them?
• Are they becoming more or less dependent on PDFs over time?
• How heavy are these files? How many pages?
  

The result? 

They could reach out with insights like: "Hey, we noticed your marketing team is using 15 different tools to create PDFs across your organization. Here's why that's costing you more than you think..."

As Ben puts it: "The really cool thing is bringing information to the attention of the prospects that they weren't even aware of."

Another Mind-Blowing Use Case

Here's where it gets really interesting. Ben shared an example from a benefits platform client:

They would scrape job postings from target accounts, analyze what benefits they were offering, then look at their competitors' benefit packages. The outreach?

"Hey Adidas, look what Nike's offering in their benefits package for sales team members. You're hiring for sales roles too—you're probably losing talent to them because they're offering more benefits."

This isn't just personalization. This is competitive intelligence delivered at scale.

Why Isn't Everyone Doing This?

If this data is so powerful, why isn't every B2B team using it?

Ben explains: "A lot of the times, in order to acquire this type of data requires a bit of technical acumen, knowing what scraping tools to use or building scrapers from the ground up, knowing when to use automation, which tools, how to prompt to analyze data using different large language models for different use cases."

Plus, "people don't even realize it's possible a lot of the time."

The Future of B2B Sales Teams

Ben predicts a massive shift in how sales teams are structured: "What used to require a large team of SDRs where a high amount of their time—20, 30%—may have been spent in prospecting mode researching, all of that time now need not be spent."

Instead? 

"One skilled go-to-market engineer with the right tools can conduct the same amount of research and data acquisition as an entire team of SDRs spending 30 to 40% of their time prospecting."

How to Get Started

Want to find your own unique data goldmine? Ben's advice is simple:

"Audit the sales team members that have a very good track record for cold prospecting. Understand exactly what it is that they're looking at on a given target account, what information they're looking for in order to determine if they're fit to go after."

The best data usually isn't one data point—it's multiple data points that let you infer something meaningful about the prospect.

The Bottom Line

While your competitors are fighting over the same stale data from traditional providers, there's a treasure trove of unique insights hiding in plain sight online. The companies that figure out how to mine this data will have an unfair advantage in their outreach.

As Ben says: "If it has a web presence, it can be found and it can be pulled out."

The question is: Are you ready to go beyond the same old data everyone else is using?

Ready to discover what unique data could do for your sales team? 

Listen to the full episode to hear Ben's complete framework for finding and leveraging data that gives you an unfair competitive advantage.

Connect with Ben Robinson on LinkedIn or check out Playbook Systems to explore how unique data acquisition could transform your outbound efforts.

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“It's the difference between companies that scale predictably and those that throw money at problems hoping something sticks.”

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After spending the last decade in the sales trenches and helping clients generate over £706M in pipeline, I've learned that RevOps isn't just another buzzword that'll disappear faster than your New Year's gym membership.

Here's what I wish someone had told me five years ago about building a RevOps team that actually moves the needle.

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What the Hell is RevOps Anyway?

“RevOps is when your revenue teams finally work together like a well-oiled machine.”

Revenue Operations is basically the grown-up version of "let's all just get along."

It's when your marketing, sales, and customer success teams stop operating like separate kingdoms (with their own currencies, languages, and weird territorial disputes) and start working together like a well-oiled machine.

Think of it this way: if your revenue process was a relay race, RevOps ensures nobody drops the baton. Because right now? Your marketing team is running full sprint toward sales, sales is looking the wrong direction, and customer success is still trying to figure out which race they're in.

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“Most companies are losing 40-60% of qualified leads during handoffs — that's not a leak, that's a waterfall”. 

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Why RevOps Isn't Just Another Corporate Initiative

“You can't wait for 'things to calm down'. They never do.”

I've watched too many companies treat RevOps like it's some nice-to-have project they'll get to "when things calm down."

But let’s be real - things never calm down.

Here's what happens when you actually implement proper RevOps though:

• Deal velocity increases by 30% (because nobody's waiting three days for someone to respond to a hot lead)
• Your sales team spends more time selling instead of hunting through 47 different spreadsheets
• Marketing can finally prove their campaigns actually generate revenue (revolutionary, I know)
• Customer success stops being the team that only talks to clients when something's broken

The Hidden Cost of Wing-It Operations

Before we dive into building your team, let's address what poor RevOps is actually costing you.

When I audit prospective clients (and trust me, I've seen some things), here's what I consistently find:

The Data Disaster Zone

• Marketing thinks they generated 500 leads this month
• Sales says they only received 300
• Customer success has no idea what promises were made during the sale
• Finance is wondering why the revenue projections are always wrong

The Handoff Horror Show

• Marketing qualified lead comes in at 3 PM Friday
• Sales doesn't see it until Tuesday (because weekends, obviously)
• Lead has already moved on to a competitor who called them within 30 minutes
• Everyone blames everyone else

The Technology Tower of Babel

• Marketing uses HubSpot
• Sales swears by Salesforce
• Customer success built their own system in Excel (I wish I was joking)
• Nobody can tell you which customer is actually profitable

One client told me they were spending £50K annually on sales tools that didn't talk to each other. Their sales team was manually copying data between systems. In 2024. Let that sink in.

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How to Build a RevOps Team That Actually Works

Step 1: The Reality Check Audit

Don't start by hiring people. Start by figuring out where your revenue engine is currently on fire.

I use what I call the "RevOps Emergency Triage":

The Bleeding Test: Where are you losing the most money right now?

• Is it leads disappearing after marketing hands them off?
• Sales reps spending half their time on admin work?
• Customers churning because onboarding was a disaster?

The Speed Test: How long does everything actually take?

• First response to a new lead
• MQL to SQL conversion
• Proposal to signature
• New customer onboarding

The Truth Test: What do your teams actually think is broken? (Pro tip: Ask them individually. You'll get more honest answers.)

I once did this audit for a client who thought their main problem was lead quality. Turns out, their leads were fine. Their sales team just wasn't following up because the CRM was so clunky they avoided using it. Six months of blaming marketing for the wrong problem.

Step 2: Stop Trying to Boil the Ocean

The biggest mistake I see? Companies trying to fix everything at once.

You know what happens when you try to implement 15 new processes simultaneously? Nothing. People get overwhelmed, revert to their old ways, and you're back to square one with less budget and more cynical teams.

Pick ONE thing. The one thing that's costing you the most money right now. Fix that first.

For most companies, it's the MQL to SQL handoff. Marketing says a lead is "qualified," sales disagrees, lead gets ignored, everyone points fingers.

Start here: Get marketing and sales in a room (yes, physically in the same room if possible) and agree on what "qualified" actually means. Not in theory. In practice.

What job title? What company size? What specific actions did they take? What questions did they ask?

Write it down. Make it measurable. Test it for 30 days. Adjust.

Boom. You just did RevOps.

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Step 3: Your First Hire (And It's Not Who You Think)

Everyone thinks they need to hire a "RevOps Director" with a fancy resume and a bigger salary than your sales manager.

Wrong.

Your first hire should be someone I call a "Revenue Detective." This person is part analyst, part project manager, part diplomat.

What they actually do:

• Dig into your data to find where revenue is getting lost
• Map out your actual processes (not what's in the employee handbook)
• Get teams talking to each other without starting World War III
• Implement quick fixes that show immediate ROI

What they DON'T do:

• Build complex attribution models (yet)
• Redesign your entire tech stack
• Create 40-slide PowerPoints about "alignment"

I've seen companies transform their revenue operations with someone making £45K who just cared enough to ask the right questions and follow up relentlessly.

The fancy stuff can come later. First, stop the bleeding.

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Step 4: The Technology Trap

Here's where most companies screw up: they think RevOps is a technology problem. It's not.

RevOps is a people and process problem that technology can help solve. But if you start with technology, you'll end up with expensive, shiny tools that nobody uses properly.

The Punch! Tech Stack Philosophy:

1. Fix the process first
2. Find the simplest technology that supports the process
3. Get everyone actually using it
4. THEN optimize and add complexity

I watched a client spend six months implementing a sophisticated marketing automation platform. Know what happened? Their sales team ignored all the leads because they didn't trust the scoring algorithm. The process was broken, not the technology.

Start with these questions:

• How are we capturing leads right now?
• Where is that data stored?
• Who needs access to it?
• What do they actually do with it?
  
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Step 5: Making Teams Actually Work Together

This is the hard part. Not the technology. Not the processes. Getting humans to change how they've been doing things for years.

I've found that the secret isn't motivation speeches or team-building exercises (though a good pizza party never hurt anyone). It's making it easier to do things the new way than the old way.

Example: Instead of forcing sales to log into a new system to get lead information, push that information directly into the tools they already use. Make the right way the lazy way.

Another example: Instead of asking marketing to change their entire reporting structure, show them how the new process will make their campaigns look more effective (because they'll actually be more effective).

People don't resist change. They resist being made to feel stupid or having their work become harder.

The Metrics That Actually Matter

Forget vanity metrics. Focus on the numbers that directly impact your bank account:

Primary Revenue KPIs:

• Pipeline velocity (how fast deals move through your funnel)
• Customer Acquisition Cost by channel
• Revenue per employee
• Customer lifetime value by segment

Leading Indicators:

• Time to first response on new leads
• Percentage of leads contacted within 4 hours
• Number of meaningful conversations per week
• Proposal-to-close conversion rate

The Punch! Secret Metric: Multi-stakeholder engagement rate. In B2B sales, you need to engage multiple decision-makers. Track how often you're having conversations with more than one person at target accounts.

This metric alone can predict deal success better than most scoring algorithms.

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Common RevOps Mistakes

Mistake #1: Perfectionism Paralysis

I've seen companies spend 18 months building the "perfect" system while their revenue suffered. Done is better than perfect. Always.

Mistake #2: Technology Before Process

If your process is broken, technology will just help you fail faster. Fix the fundamentals first.

Mistake #3: Ignoring External Partners

If you work with external agencies (ahem), integrate them into your RevOps planning from day one. We've seen too many companies treat their outsourced partners like afterthoughts, then wonder why handoffs are messy.

Mistake #4: Treating RevOps Like IT

RevOps is a business function, not a technical one. Your RevOps leader should understand strategy, not just spreadsheets.

“One client told me they were spending £50K annually on tools that didn't even talk to each other.”

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The Bottom Line on RevOps

RevOps isn't about having the fanciest tech stack or the most sophisticated attribution model. It's about getting your teams to work together efficiently so you can grow predictably.

I've seen companies triple their revenue with nothing more than better communication and cleaner processes. I've also seen companies spend hundreds of thousands on RevOps initiatives that failed because they focused on complexity instead of fundamentals.

Start simple. Fix the obvious problems first. Hire people who care more about results than titles. Focus on processes before technology. And for the love of all that's profitable, get your teams talking to each other.

Your future self (and your bank account) will thank you.

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I was having coffee with Mark, a former SDR who'd just handed in his notice at a well-known tech company. Two years of grinding, crushing quotas, and consistently hitting his numbers. The kind of rep any sales leader would kill to keep.

"I'm done," he said, stirring his oat milk latte with the exhaustion of someone who'd been running on fumes for months. "I can't do another day of 100 cold calls just to get hung up on by people who think I'm selling them insurance."

Mark's story isn't unique. It's epidemic.

The average SDR tenure is 1.5 years. That's not a statistic—that's a warning siren that most companies are choosing to ignore while they frantically post job openings and wonder why their pipeline keeps drying up.

But here's what most sales leaders miss: the problem isn't that SDRs are getting soft. The problem is that we're burning through talented people because we've built a system that treats humans like expendable revenue machines.

The Hidden Cost of SDR Churn 

Let's talk numbers, because apparently that's the only language C-suite executives understand.

When an SDR quits, you're not just losing a person. 

You're losing:

$47,000 in replacement costs (recruitment, onboarding, training, ramp time)

3-6 months of lost productivity while you find and train their replacement 

All their pipeline knowledge (those warm prospects they were nurturing? Gone.) 

Team morale (nothing kills motivation like watching your best performer walk out)

Last year, I watched a client burn through seven SDRs in eight months. Seven. Their CEO kept asking why their pipeline was inconsistent while spending more on recruitment than they would've on a full outsourced SDR solution.

The math is brutal: if you're replacing SDRs every 1.5 years, you're essentially running a very expensive training academy for your competitors.

Why Traditional SDR Management is Broken 

I've been in sales long enough to remember when "smile and dial" was considered cutting-edge strategy. 

The traditional SDR model is fundamentally flawed because it treats symptoms, not causes:

The Volume Trap: 

"Make 100 calls a day" sounds impressive until you realize it's optimizing for activity, not outcomes. I've seen SDRs hit call targets while generating zero quality conversations. It's like measuring a surgeon's success by how fast they can make incisions.

The Spray-and-Pray Approach: 

Give them a list of 10,000 contacts and hope something sticks. This isn't strategy—it's gambling with expensive resources.

The Motivation Mirage: 

Pizza parties and leaderboards might work for a month, but they don't address the core issue: SDRs burning out because they're fighting an uphill battle with terrible tools and even worse processes.

The Skills Gap: 

Most companies hire SDRs and expect them to figure it out. It's like hiring someone to perform surgery and handing them a butter knife.

Here's what nobody talks about: the best SDRs don't quit because they hate sales. They quit because they hate feeling like failures in a system designed to make them fail.

The Burnout Warning Signs Your HR Team Won't Tell You About

In my experience working with SDRs, I've seen a pattern: the warning signs of burnout are always the same. The scary part? Most managers miss them completely.

The Enthusiasm Death: 

Remember how excited your new hire was in week one? If they're going through the motions by month three, you've got a problem. (Side note: if your onboarding process consists of "here's your laptop and your list," you're part of the problem.)

The Question Drought: 

Good SDRs ask questions. Lots of them. When they stop asking how to improve, what's working, or why certain approaches matter, they've mentally checked out. They're just waiting for a better offer.

The Excuse Factory: 

When previously honest reps start making excuses for missed calls or blown follow-ups, they've lost faith in the process. And once that happens, you've lost them.

The Meeting Decline: 

If they're suddenly "too busy" for coaching sessions or team meetings, they're already interviewing elsewhere.

The brutal truth? By the time you notice these signs, it's usually too late. The best SDRs are already three interviews deep with your competitor.

10 Ways Smart Businesses Retain Their SDRs

I've spent a lot of time figuring out what makes some companies great at keeping their SDRs. After seeing what works and what doesn't, here are the 10 strategies that separate the winners from the wannabes

1. Treat SDRs Like Revenue Generators, Not Call Machines

We know that focusing on conversation quality over call quantity is what separates a good sales team from a great one. The difference? SDRs feel like professionals, not telemarketers.

At Punch!, we take this a step further with our data-driven approach to outbound. Our SDRs aren't making cold calls to random lists—they're calling pre-vetted leads through our Priority ABX™ technology. When your reps know they're calling someone who's already showing buying intent, their confidence and conversion rates skyrocket.

2. Recruit, Reward, and Retain on Company Values

Here's what nobody talks about: skills can be taught, but values can't. The best companies hire for cultural fit first, skills second.

We hire, reward, and retain based on core values, not just performance metrics. When someone aligns with your values, they don't just hit targets—they become ambassadors for your mission.

3. Create Clear Career Progression Paths

The best companies don't hire SDRs to stay SDRs forever. They hire future account executives, customer success managers, and sales leaders.

HubSpot nailed this early with their clear 18-month progression path from SDR to Account Executive, complete with skills assessments and guaranteed promotion opportunities.

At Punch!, every employee gets an established career journey showing exactly how they can progress. No guesswork, no politics—just clear milestones and development opportunities. 

Our average SDR tenure of 2 years proves this works.

4. Invest in Technology That Makes SDRs Superhuman

This isn't about buying the latest shiny tool. It's about strategic technology investment that amplifies human capability.

Our SDRs have access to top technology, including Orum Salesfloor integration for real-time coaching and continuous development.

If your SDRs are spending more than 30% of their time on administrative tasks, you're wasting their talent and your money.

5. Implement Dedicated Coaching Programs

Most companies think a monthly team meeting counts as coaching. It doesn't.

We provide regular coaching sessions (2 per week minimum) combined with our Pod system structure—every client success manager has a dedicated sales development manager with their own SDR team. No one gets lost in the crowd.

6. Create Internal Training and Development Programs

Generic sales training is like using a butter knife for surgery—technically it's a tool, but it won't get the job done.

Our SDR Academy provides specific training and certifications created internally, complete with videos, exercises, and quizzes tailored to our methodology and client needs. When SDRs master skills that are directly applicable to their daily work, they see immediate results.

7. Run with Transparency and Clear Vision

Nothing kills motivation faster than feeling like you're working in the dark.

We run on EOS (Entrepreneurial Operating System), which means complete transparency around vision and traction. Everyone knows where we're going, how we're getting there, and exactly how their role contributes to the bigger picture.

8. Put Former SDRs in Management Roles

Here's a controversial take: most SDR managers have never been SDRs. They're managing a job they've never done.

Our managers have mainly all been SDRs, so they have real context to lead. They've been hung up on, dealt with rejection, and know what it takes to succeed. This isn't theory—it's lived experience.

9. Make Work Fun with Regular Games and Incentives

SDR work can be tough. If you're not actively making it engaging, you're part of the problem.

We implement regular games and incentives that go beyond basic leaderboards. Our MVP Club gives everyone in the company an equal chance to earn points—the top 10 team members every year get a fully expensed trip.

10. Align Financial Incentives with Success

Here's what most companies get wrong: they pay SDRs to show up, not to succeed.

We've implemented a commission structure that incentivizes SDRs when they exceed goals. It's not just about base salary—it's about rewarding excellence and making top performers feel valued.

Why Punch! Exists (And Why It Matters for Your Business:

We started Punch! because we got tired of watching talented SDRs burn out in broken systems. We built a company around a simple premise: what if SDRs had every possible advantage?

Advanced technology, continuous training, clear career paths, and the support of a team that's refined this process across hundreds of successful campaigns.

But here's what I'm most proud of: our SDRs don't burn out. They level up.

The companies that will win the next decade of B2B growth are those that stop trying to do everything in-house and start partnering with specialists who can deliver unfair advantages.

Your SDRs deserve better than a system designed to burn them out. Your business deserves better than the status quo tax.

The question isn't whether the current system is broken. The question is: how long are you willing to pay the price for ignoring it?

The Bottom Line

The SDR burnout epidemic isn't going away. It's getting worse as competition for talent increases and buyer behavior becomes more complex.

You have two choices:

Option 1: Keep doing what you're doing. Keep hiring, training, and losing good people. Keep wondering why your pipeline is inconsistent and your costs keep rising.

Option 2: Partner with specialists who've solved this problem. Get guaranteed results, predictable costs, and access to technology and expertise that would take years to build internally.

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Ever wondered why your outbound prospects ghost you faster than a bad Tinder date? You're not alone.

In this week's episode of B2B Outbound, hosts Chris and James sat down with Kevin Baumgart, founder of Set Sales and a sales veteran with over 20 years of experience. From selling copiers door-to-door in downtown Chicago to coaching high-growth tech companies, Kevin's seen it all.

Meet Kevin: The Sales Coaching Veteran

Kevin's journey started in the trenches – literally knocking on doors in Chicago with nothing but a briefcase full of business cards and a Rolodex for contact management. (Remember those?)

"I got kicked out of buildings and got locked in a stairwell on the 17th floor of an office building in downtown Chicago," Kevin recalls with a laugh. "Yeah, there's definitely some PTSD from that experience."

But that grind taught him everything. After cutting his teeth in door-to-door sales, Kevin transitioned into the startup world, helping early-stage software companies from pre-seed to series B scale their sales operations. Now, through Set Sales, he provides one-on-one coaching, fractional head of sales work, and custom training curriculum.

The #1 Challenge Every Sales Team Faces

When asked about the most recurring challenge he sees, Kevin doesn't hesitate:

"Opportunity creation. Lead generation. That new opportunity creation building that consistent pipeline."

It's not process optimization or closing techniques – it's getting quality opportunities in the door in the first place. As Kevin puts it, echoing wisdom from a VC board member: "Nothing happens until somebody sells something."

The Great AE Debate

This one's a hot topic. Should your star account executives be prospecting, or should they focus purely on closing?

Kevin's take is refreshingly practical: "Every org is different."

For early-stage companies with limited resources, AEs might need to wear multiple hats. But as organizations mature, Kevin advocates for specialization:

"If I have a really solid AE that is so good at running the sales process and getting deals over the finish line, I don't want them to do one prospecting call. I want them focused on that all day, every day."

The key? Clear role definition from day one. No surprises, no "I've paid my dues" attitudes.

Outbound vs. Inbound

Here's where things get interesting. Kevin breaks down the fundamental difference between converting inbound and outbound opportunities:

Inbound prospects know you. They reached out. They can usually articulate their need clearly.

Outbound prospects? Not so much. They haven't raised their hand, which means your sales process needs to be completely different.

The Discovery Deep Dive

For outbound opportunities, Kevin emphasizes going way deeper on discovery than you might with inbound leads:

"So many sales organizations do a really good job of uncovering needs and pain points, but they don't dial in impact behind that need and challenge."

It's not enough to know they have a problem. You need to understand:

• The impact on the business
• The impact on the team
• The impact on your champion personally

The Demo Disaster

Kevin has strong feelings about generic demos: "I see way too many demos that are, 'Hey, here's the functionality' and they go through all the pieces of functionality and every demo looks the same. It irks me."

Instead, your demo should be laser-focused on the specific pain points and impacts you uncovered in discovery.

The Tech Revolution: What's Working

The conversation naturally turned to the latest sales tech trends. Kevin's excited about tools like Gong, Clari, and conversation intelligence platforms:

"The days of not being able to analyze and review calls and look at data in the sales process and understand shortcomings and where funnel bleed is... sales leaders have such a different role today."

On AI voice agents? Kevin's cautiously optimistic but realistic about current limitations: "The quality is not there. There's a massive gray area from a legality perspective."

The Virtual Assistant Game Changer

One trend Kevin's particularly excited about? The rise of virtual assistants for sales teams:

"Instead of hiring a $70,000-$90,000 sales ops person, now they can hire 4, 5, 6, 7 virtual assistants."

He's seeing account executives with dedicated VAs helping with pipeline management, CRM updates, deal analysis, and proposal generation – support levels that were unthinkable just a few years ago.

Kevin's Golden Rules for Closing Outbound Deals

When pressed for his top advice for converting outbound opportunities, Kevin offered two game-changing insights:

1. Master Your Discovery Process

"If I had to give one piece of advice, it would be focus on discovery. Script it out, message it out, understand everything that you need to uncover prior to that discovery process."

Kevin emphasizes that when he does win-loss analysis, it almost always comes back to something that happened (or didn't happen) in the discovery stage.

2. Define Your Next Steps (Seriously)

"I find way too many salespeople end a call and there isn't defined next steps. Most importantly, time on the calendar with an invite sent with them accepting that invite."

Kevin believes getting ghosted isn't entirely the prospect's fault – it's often because we haven't done our job defining clear, valuable next steps.

The Process Evolution Challenge

In a world where tools, tactics, and technology change daily, how do you keep your sales process fresh without causing chaos?

Kevin advocates for treating your sales process as "a living, breathing document" but warns against constant changes:

"Yes, we should make improvements. But I think we got to be calculated and dialed in and communicate with the team... that doesn't mean we have to jump on every new tool right away."

His recommendation? Quarterly reviews of process and tooling, with clear communication to the team about any changes.

The Bottom Line

Outbound selling isn't broken – but it requires a fundamentally different approach than inbound. Success comes down to:

• Deeper discovery that uncovers not just pain, but impact
• Structured processes that guide prospects through each stage
• Clear next steps that keep momentum alive
• The right balance of human touch and technological efficiency

As Kevin puts it: "Use the insight you've gathered from discovery calls and refer back to it the whole way through the process."

Ready to Transform Your Outbound Game?

Kevin's insights are just the beginning. If you're struggling with outbound conversion rates, inconsistent pipeline, or want to build a sales process that actually works, this episode is essential listening.

Want to connect with Kevin? Find him at setsales.co or reach out at kevin@setsales.com for coaching and consulting that turns outbound challenges into closed deals.

Listen to the full episode to hear Kevin's complete framework for outbound success, plus war stories from the door-to-door days that'll make you appreciate your current sales challenges.

We've all been measuring the wrong bloody things when it comes to outbound strategy.

I learned this the hard way three years ago when I was obsessing over our demo booking rates like they were stock prices during a market crash. We hit our meeting targets. We smashed our call quotas. Our email open rates looked prettier than a LinkedIn influencer's headshot.

And yet, something felt... off.

Our pipeline was shakier than a Jenga tower in an earthquake. Deals were taking forever to close. 

We were measuring activity, not impact.

The Metrics Everyone Tracks

Walk into any sales floor and you'll see the same dashboards everywhere:

• Demos booked per week
• Call connection rates (aiming for that magical 25-35%)
• Email response rates (celebrating those 1-3% victories)
• Conversion rates through the funnel

These numbers feel important. They're easy to track. They make for great Monday morning stand-ups.

But 54% of outbound marketers report their efforts feel ineffective despite hitting these "success" metrics.

The problem? We're treating outbound like it's 2015.

Outbound Isn't a Sales Problem—It's a Marketing Problem

This is where most companies get it spectacularly wrong.

They hand outbound to their sales team and wonder why the messaging sounds like it was written by a robot having an existential crisis. "We leverage synergistic solutions to optimize your operational efficiency..." (Yawn.)

The smartest companies I know? They've moved outbound ownership to marketing.

Why? Because effective outbound is about storytelling, not cold calling. It's about creating genuine connections, not booking meetings at any cost.

At Punch!, we've been banging this drum for years. Our "tech-enabled intelligence with people-powered sales development" approach isn't just marketing speak—it's recognition that awareness and relationship-building matter as much as conversion rates.

Companies like Storylane figured this out. They moved outbound under marketing and saw their effectiveness skyrocket. Not because they got better at dialling phones, but because they got better at crafting messages that actually resonate.

The Revolutionary Shift

Here's what blew my mind: outbound's biggest impact might not be the meetings you book. It might be the conversations you never have.

Stay with me here.

Every piece of outbound creates a touchpoint. Someone sees your name in their inbox. They visit your website. They Google your company. They mention you to a colleague.

Most of that happens in the shadows, completely invisible to traditional metrics.

The New Success Metrics That Actually Matter

1. Website Traffic from Outbound Sources

Track visitors who hit your site after outbound touchpoints, even if they don't book meetings immediately. I once watched our website traffic spike 40% during an outbound campaign, with zero meetings booked that week. Six months later? Those "invisible" visitors became our biggest deals.

2. Branded Search Lift

When prospects start Googling your company name after receiving outreach, you've won. It means you've created enough intrigue to drive active research. (Pro tip: Set up Google Alerts for your company name and watch the magic happen.)

3. Pre-Conversation Recognition Rate

This is the gold standard. How often do prospects say "Oh yeah, I've heard of you guys" before you even introduce yourself? We track this obsessively because it's the clearest indicator that outbound is building genuine awareness.

4. Content Engagement Post-Outreach

Are prospects downloading your whitepapers after receiving emails? Watching your demo videos? Engaging with your LinkedIn content? This behavior screams "nurture me, don't pitch me."

How Our Priority ABX™ Technology Proves the Point

We're not just theorizing here. Our Priority ABX™ system tracks:

• Real-time buying signals and engagement patterns
• Multi-touch attribution across every channel
• Website behavior following outbound touchpoints
• Intent data showing when prospects research solutions

This isn't wishful thinking—it's how we've generated £706M in pipeline for clients by focusing on perfect-timing engagement rather than aggressive prospecting.

The results speak louder than any vanity metric ever could.

Pattern Interrupts

Your prospects receive 20-30 cold emails daily. (I counted mine last week—it was 27, and that's just LinkedIn messages.)

In that environment, traditional outreach is digital wallpaper. Invisible. Ignored. Immediately deleted.

You need pattern interrupts.

What Actually Works (From the Trenches)

Interactive Demos in Emails: Storylane sends working product demos directly in emails. Prospects can interact without leaving their inbox. Revolutionary? Maybe. Effective? Absolutely.

Plain Text Everything: Strip out the logos, banners, and corporate templates. Make it look like a personal email from a friend. Plain text emails see 21-42% higher click-through rates because they feel human.

The "Did You See This?" Follow-Up: Instead of 300-word business development novels, send a quick GIF with "Hey, did you see this?" I've seen this generate more responses than perfectly crafted value propositions.

1:1 Video Messages: Everyone expects text. Nobody expects a personalized video. The emotional connection is incomparable.

Why Pattern Interrupts Are Our Bread and Butter

This isn't innovative for us—it's foundational:

• Barney Pro gifting platform: Physical gifts that cut through digital noise like a hot knife through butter
• Signal-based personalization: Using real company triggers, not generic "I saw you hired someone" templates
• Multi-channel orchestration: Phone, email, LinkedIn, direct mail, targeted ads—all working in harmony

Our case studies prove it works. Basware's 1,077% ROI. Lumi's 56 opportunities in 4 months. These didn't come from traditional sales tactics—they came from sophisticated pattern interrupts that created genuine engagement.

The Psychology Behind Why This Works

Pattern interrupts force conscious engagement.

When someone's brain is on autopilot (delete, delete, delete), unexpected elements jolt them into awareness. But here's the crucial part: the interrupt must be relevant, not just novel.

Sending a rubber duck with your pitch email isn't a pattern interrupt—it's spam with props.

The best interrupts feel like genuine human communication in a world of automated outreach.

Implementation: The 90-Day Transformation

Phase 1: Measurement Framework (Days 1-30)

Rip up your existing dashboard. Build new KPIs around awareness and engagement:

• Set up UTM tracking for all outbound campaigns
• Install branded search monitoring
• Create website visitor identification workflows
• Establish pre-conversation recognition benchmarks

Phase 2: Creative Development (Days 31-60)

Develop your pattern interrupt arsenal:

• Create plain text email templates that sound human
• Build interactive demo capabilities
• Develop personalized video recording processes
• Design multi-touch campaign sequences

Phase 3: Coordinated Execution (Days 61-90)

Launch awareness-focused campaigns with surgical precision:

• Coordinate marketing touchpoints with sales outreach timing
• Deploy pattern interrupts across multiple channels
• Track the new metrics religiously
• Optimize based on awareness indicators, not just meeting bookings

The Human Connection Challenge

Here's what most companies miss: technology and creativity mean nothing without authentic human connection.

You can have the most sophisticated tracking, the most creative campaigns, the most impressive pattern interrupts. But if your SDRs can't convert awareness into meaningful conversations, you're still screwed.

This is where the "people-powered" philosophy becomes non-negotiable. Recognition is just the first phase—you need humans who can turn that awareness into genuine relationships.

At Punch!, we don't just track branded searches and website visits. We convert that awareness into revenue. Because measuring what matters is only half the battle—capitalizing on it is where the magic happens.

The Future Is Already Here

The companies winning in 2024 treat recognition as measurable as revenue.

They track Pre-Conversation Recognition Rates like conversion metrics. They analyze Digital Research Footprint patterns like customer behavior data. They optimize for Branded Search Penetration like SEO rankings.

But they never forget that behind every metric is a human being making a decision.

The future belongs to companies that can combine sophisticated marketing measurement with authentic human engagement. Not one or the other—both.

Because at the end of the day, outbound success isn't about the meetings you book. It's about the relationships you build, the awareness you create, and the trust you establish long before anyone ever gets on a call.

The question isn't whether your outbound is generating demos. The question is whether it's generating recognition, relationships, and ultimately, revenue.

Everything else is just noise.

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Ever wondered what a modern marketing budget actually looks like? Wonder no more.

In the latest episode of B2B Outbound, hosts Chris and James sat down with Madhav Bhandari, VP of Marketing at Storylane, who literally broke the internet with his transparent breakdown of their entire $3 million marketing spend.

Meet the Man Behind the Viral Post

Madhav runs marketing at Storylane, an AI-native demo automation platform that's been making waves in the fast-growing interactive demo space. With 15 years in B2B SaaS under his belt, he's the guy who decided to call BS on LinkedIn's culture of inflated growth claims.

His post revealing Storylane's exact marketing budget breakdown? Thousands of comments, views through the roof, and probably more sales pitches than he knows what to do with.

Why He Went Nuclear with Transparency

Madhav was sick of the LinkedIn humble-bragging epidemic:

"I was so sick of people just talking about, hey, you know, we had 6x growth and 5x growth in the last quarter. Genuinely good marketers just felt like they weren't doing good enough, right? While these were all just inflated numbers by people."

The reality check? Those "5x growth" claims often meant going from £50k to £250k ARR - very different from scaling £2 million to £10 million.

His solution? Total transparency. With his CEO's blessing, he made their entire marketing budget public because "ideas are everywhere, execution is what matters."

The Mind Map Method

Before throwing money at channels, Madhav starts with something brilliant - a massive mind map of where his ideal customers actually spend their time.

"I literally have this massive mind map where, like, okay, these are literally every potential place where they could be. Then I start attaching channels to them."

Think marketers? They're on LinkedIn, at events, Googling tutorials, watching YouTube. Each touchpoint becomes a potential channel investment.

The Portfolio Approach

Here's where it gets interesting. Madhav doesn't think like a marketer - he thinks like a fund manager.

"I think of it like a portfolio. All of these channels are like my stocks in the portfolio. I have to identify what channels have potential for really high investment with continuing returns."

The strategy:

1. Start with one channel you know well
2. Scale what works
3. Kill what doesn't
4. Constantly rebalance based on performance

At Storylane, this meant slashing SEO spend while doubling down on influencer marketing - a move that paid off massively.

The Outbound Revolution

Madhav wasn't initially a fan of outbound. But when their VP of Sales suggested marketing should own it instead of sales, everything changed.

His reasoning? "Outbound is about messaging, copywriting, it's about the creative. It's about how to connect with people and have them respond to it. That's a marketing problem, not a sales problem."

The transformation took 2-3 months, but the results speak for themselves.

Pattern Interrupt

Forget traditional outbound. Madhav's team focuses on one thing: pattern interrupt.

Instead of booking demos directly, they drive awareness and get people to the website. Their approach:

• Send interactive demos in emails
• Use plain text (no banners or images)
• Follow up with simple GIFs
• Focus on being genuinely different

The response? "Oh my god, this is so cool. I love this." Real inbox reactions from real prospects.

The Future of Outbound

Despite the "outbound is dead" crowd, Madhav's bullish on its future:

"It will be for sure, it's like a channel that continues to give. But it won't be about traditional email cold outbound... It will definitely have a transformation."

The key? Stop adding to the noise. Start breaking patterns.

Key Takeaways

1. Transparency wins - Honest budget breakdowns build trust and credibility
2. Think like a fund manager - Treat marketing channels like a stock portfolio
3. Start with one channel - Master it before expanding
4. Map your ICPs first - Know where they hang out before you invest
5. Pattern interrupt beats pattern following - Different gets noticed

The Bottom Line

Marketing budgets don't have to be mysterious black boxes. When you're transparent about what works (and what doesn't), you build credibility and help the entire industry level up.

Madhav's approach isn't just refreshing - it's revolutionary. In a world of fake growth claims and marketing myths, sometimes the best strategy is simply telling the truth.

Ready to revolutionize your own marketing approach? Time to map those ICPs and start thinking like a fund manager.

Want to hear the full breakdown of Storylane's marketing strategy and budget allocation? Listen to the complete episode of B2B Outbound for all the insider details and actionable insights that didn't make it into this post.

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Listen to the full episode here

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